Fig, Persimmon,Progress Report. 5.30.15

Container Figs.  5.130.15

 Container figs all have thick mulch of chopped fir tree.  Some are doing better than others.  I've snapped off the growing tips, for branches of 4 or more leaves, to stimulate fig development.  For in-ground fig row south of house, I've done the same for side branches but allowed the central leaders to continue.

Persimmons.  The 2 trees in 3rd leaf, and the American Persimmon in 1st leaf, are all growing vigorously.  Nikita's Gift and Yates' flower buds persist. Chances are they will fall off, but I watch anyway.   All have protection from deer and rodents, and all have thick grass clipping mulch.  All have been given pee-cycling fertilizer, and all have been given extra water.

American Persimmon "Yates".  5.30.15

Hybrid Persimmon "Nikita's Gift"  5.30.15

 Pawpaws.   The three in 3rd leaf are growing well. "Sunflower" 3 fruit embryo / one flower, persists.  All have had doses of pee-cycling fertilizer, diluted 1:10, and all have been given extra water.  All have thick layers of grass clipping mulch, and nearby grass/weeds are removed.

Pawpaw "Mango", in first leaf, looks great.  That too, has been given the spa treatment, with  diluted pee, grass clipping mulch, protective fencing, and weed/grass clearance.

Kaki Persimmon "Saijo".  5.30.15

Pawpaw trees @ 3rd Leaf.  5.30 15

Persimmon and Pawpaw Progress Report. 5.19.15

Flower Buds on Nikita's Gift Persimmon.  5.19.15

Last Remaining Flower on Sunflower Pawpaw.  5.19.15

All but one of the pawpaw flowers fell  off.  The one that remains is on Sunflower.  It takes a close look to see the developing ovary.  I don't know.  It might give a couple of pawpaws.  This one flower is the last chance for this year.

Saijo Persimmon had some flower buds but they fell off without opening.  Nikita's gift started growth much later, compared to Saijo, the growth is much thicker and stronger, and there are a few flower buds.  The tree is only about 3 feet tall.

Yates American Persimmon is also growing strong, and has some flower buds.  This is first leaf for that one.

Puttering. 3.28.15

Main orchard.  3.28.15

Jonagold with multigrafts from Fedco.  3.28.15

 Most plants are out of dormancy or nearly so.

Plums are basically finished blooming.  Unable to see if and how much fruit set has happened.  All Asian plums are done.  Toka finished just after Asian plums.  Euro plums, Green gage is almost done, and Stanley is still blooming.  Stanley is the last to bloom.

Sweet cherries are in about full bloom.

Tart cherries barely beginning to bloom.  They really are later than sweet cherries, which is good for late frost avoidance.

Too early to say anything about the apple and plum grafts.  I look at them every day.

Pawpaw flower buds are swelling, Sunflower and NC-1.  I check those every day too.

Persimmons are growing, even Yates that I planted this January.  I often read that they may take until mid or late summer to grow, their first year.  Mine are budding out at the same time as mulberries.  Nikita's Gift and Saijo both have swelling buds, almost open.

The Mishirasu Asian pear graft, that I grafted last year and was eaten off twice by deer, is growing nicely.  The tree is fenced with a deer cage now.  Other grafts on that tree - 3 are have their first flower clusters.  It's been raining during bloom.  Too early to know if there is fruit set.  I should get the first Shinseiki on the Battleground tree this year - 2 year old cleft graft - and the first Hosui, the tree that I planted in 2012 and grafted others onto it since then.

Plum whip and tongue graft.  Ember.  3.28.15

NC-1 Pawpaw flower buds, swelling.  3.28.15

 Grapes are budding out and starting to grow.

Apples nearly blooming.

Prairie fire crab apple, almost blooming.  There are a couple of flowers, so this is among the first of apples to bloom.

Mishirasu growing despite deer browsing.  3.28.15

Yates Persimmon buds swelling.  3.28.15

Buds. Pollinating. Bud Grafts. 3.10.15

Crimson Pointe Plum.  3.10.15

Peach and Plum flowers for pollinating.  3.10.15

 Many of the plums and peaches are in full bloom.

Unkown Battleground plum.  Mid to late bloom.

Unknown #2.  Scattered bloom.

Crimson Pointe Plum.  Full bloom.

Toka.  Early, almost full bloom.

Oregon Curl Free Peach - Early, almost full.

Charlotte Peach - Early, almost full.

Q-1-8 Peach - Early.

Hollywood Plum.  Full bloom.

Shiro Plum.  Full bloom.

Methly Plum.  Only 3 flowers on the tree.

Genetic Dwarf Peaches.  All full bloom.

Stanley Plum.  Buds eginning to swell.

Gage Plum.  Buds beginning to swell.

Sweet cherries.  Buds beginning to swell.

Tart cherries.  Barely noticable swelling.

Apples.  Buds swelling.

Asian Pears.  Buds swelling.

Pawpaws.  Buds beginning to swell.

Persimmons.  Barely detectable growth bud swelling.

Mulberries.  No noticable swelling.

Shan Zha (Chinese Haw) - see photo.  I don't know if these are flower buds or new growth.

Shan Zha buds, almost open.  3.10.15

I cut stems from the genetic dwarf peaches, Hollywood and Shiro plums, to take to Battleground as pollen sources.  I used artist paintbrush to transfer pollen from those to peaches and plum flowers.

Many of the bud grafts from July 2014 are opened and growing.  They are a bit less vigorous compared to other buds on those trees.  I cut back the stems to about 1/2 to 1 inch above the growing buds.  It's a long wait, from July to March, to see if they took.

It's interesting that some of the bud grafts are blooming, such as the Hollywood, pink, buds on the unknown, white flowered plum tree.   I noticed several such buds bloomed.  I think it's OK, the stem growth will follow.

New sign for the yard - Washington State Backyard Wildlife Sanctuary.  I had to fill out an application form describing the places in the yard where wildlife can find shelter, the trees, potential pollen and nectar sources for bees and butterflies, no-spray area, some native plants although by no means all.  Now signs up on both parts of the yard.

Hollywood buds on unknown variety of plum.  3.10.15

Toka plum in bloom.  3.10.15

 On bud grafts - it looks like plums did the best.  The couple I did on peach tree did not take.  Only 2 of about 8 on lilac took.  On cherries, hard to say because not all buds are swelling.  Some have fallen off.  I think all of the plum buds took.  Some are growing, some have flowers.

Backyard Wildlife Sanctuary

Puttering. Training Young Fruit Trees. 12.29.14

Peach Variety Q-1-8 undergoing training.

 I puttered around a little and tied branches of young trees in the directions I went them to mature.  The other choices are, leave them alone, or prune off branches that grow in the wrong directions.

These were all growing together in a bunch.  I tied them to the deer fencing, bending branches to make a vase-shaped tree.  After one year, they can be untied.

I did the same for other trees, peaches, persimmons, pears, plums.  I did the same for apples, too.

It doesn't look like much.  The good training will make a big difference in a few years.

Persimmon Daydreaming. 12.18.14

American Persimmon.  Image source commons.wikimedia,org

American persimmon.  Image source commons.wikimedia.org

I've been thinking about adding an American persimmon tree.  I have a location in mind.

There are a few varieties described as not needing a male to pollinate them.  Yates, Prok, Meader.   Time to bear is listed as 3 to 5 years.

The varieties at Starks are 1 to 2 feet tall, in air pots.  Those are containers with open bottom, so the roots are "air pruned" resulting in bushier root mass and considered more likely to survive.  That size is small to my mind.  I have grown other trees from smaller, however.

Burnt Ridge also carries persimmon trees.  I sent them an email asking size, time to bear.

I only want to try one tree.  Yates or Prok are options.  Yates has more of a flavor description, Prok has more claim about how much they bear, and larger fruit.  Those are not side to side comparisons.

Starks gives ideal planting time as early march.  Will think about it some more.

We bought Asian persimmons at the grocery store the past couple of weeks.  Hichaya was much better than Fuyu.  Fuyu are more common.  They are better if allowed to ripen until soft.  They are like a tropical fruit flavor, a jelly in a fruit skin.

Fall in the Orchard. 11.8.14

North Side of Orchard.  11.8.14

Wild Plum Seedling.  2 years old.  11.7.14

Buddleia Windbreak West of Orchard.  11.8.14

Fig Row, South of House.  11.8.14

 Some views of mini orchard spread around the yard.  This is end of the 3rd summer here at Battleground, so many of the trees have had 2 full years to acclimate and grow.

Pawpaws were planted the first summer.  Never having grown them, and read about difficult to get started and slow to grow, I'm pleased they have done this well.  The smallest is Rebecca's Gold, about one foot tall.  NC-1 is the largest, about 4 foot tall.  Sunflower, about 3 foot tall.  I'm also pleased about the persimmons.  Nikita's Gift was so tiny I wondered if it would grow.  Now, sturdy and looking promising for future years, although  only about 4 foot tall.  Saijo is about 8 foot.  I did give  them - and the paw paws, organic nitrogen this Spring.

Peaches - Oregon Curl Free about 9 foot tall.  Charlotte about 8 foot tall.  Indian Free about 3 foot tall.  Q-1-8 in it's first year, grew rapidly, 5 foot tall.  The only one of the 3 older trees to have bad leaf curl was Charlotte.  That was also the only one to have peaches - only 2 - this is only the 2nd year old for these.

 Wild Plums, the largest seedling is about 8 foot tall.  This is 3rd year from seed, the first being in container.   There are 3, only one in a prime location for sun and with protection.  Deer eat up to about 4 feet, but the top looks very good.

Other plums, Stanley didn't bear but is very large now, mature looking tree.  Has spurs with promise for flowers.  Satsuma died.  Replaced with cutting-grown Hollywood, 1 foot tall 1st year from cutting.  Toka was best tasting, 3 plums. 7 foot tall.  Methley, no plums, growth now 5 foot tall.  NOIDs already on property, the smallest / deer mangled fully recovered and above the usual deer browsing height; the largest had only about 4 plums.  Now both with multiple bud grafts of other varieties. 

Cherries, lots of deer browsing.  Very discouraging.  The sweet cherries and tart cherries need better protection.  Sweet cherries did establish well, now about 5 foot tall.  Central leads are good, branches browsed to within the narrow cages I installed on these.   Montmorency did very well when I got the deer fence in, 8 foot tall and lush.   I can buy more fencing if I use the truck to commute this week.  North Star and Almaden Duke unprotected browsed nearly to death, we'll see what happens next year.  Both have some bud grafts that are looking tenuous, we'll see.

Apples, this is first year for most.  Wondering if minidwarfs are a good idea.  The dwarfs - JonaRed - shipped from Starks, excellent growth, and multi-graft disease resistant, Rubinette, Pristine, and Queen Cox, shipped from Raintree, almost as good.  The columnar apples, planted at about 18 inches tall their first year, now about 3 foot tall, Golden Sentinel had one apple - very good, Scarlet Sentinel had none.  They are in cages.

Illinois Everbearing Mulberry and NOID Forsythia. 11.8.14

Figs, South of house, recovered from frost kill.  Sal's was not frost killed, now 4 foot.  Tiger, Carini, Smith all grew multi-trunks to 2 or 3 foot.  Petite Aubique, 18 inches, but sturdy.  I'm in process of installing gnaw-screens as leaves fall.  When colder, plan to add inverted trash can protectors for the young ones, and chicken wire or bird net to deter deer and rabbits, for Sal's.  Plan next year- replace the NOID with Lattarula from container, in Spring.  Maybe add one more to row, Dominick.   If any die back again maybe replace with Dominic instead of adding one more.

Buddleia hedge grew to 8 foot tall, for those in 2nd year - Blueberry and Peach Cobbler varieties.  They weren't all that attractive, but the windbreak will be useful.  That side is source of wind.  Honeycomb, in 2st year, grew about the same as the others did last year.  Anticipate pruning all back, so they can grow bushier and not over-tall.

Illinois Everbearing Mulberry, not in the 5 X 5 grid but nearby.   Now 8 foot tall.  Had some nice mulberries this year.  No dear browsing.  Most branches probably too tall.  It may be hard to install bird netting next year due to height, but I should try. 

Urine Fertilizer. Eco San. Progress Report. 6.7.14

Urine for Fertilizer.  6.7.14

Ginkgo biloba with rapid growth.  6.7.14

 Last winter I ran across several web reports and research studies involving use of urine as fertilizer. I summarized the information here.  I could find, concentrating mainly on research reports and objective information, and background.  This is the report of my experience so far.

First, there is nothing scientific about my observations.  I did not do any comparative experiments.  Therefore, observations are just that - my experiences.

1.  Collection process.  No brainer.  Once you get used to peeing into a bottle, urinating toilet feels abnormal, wasteful, and strange.  It's easy  to pee into the bottles.  I discovered I've been watching my urine, and when it looks darker, I make sure to drink more fluids.  I rinse the bottles with each use, so they are clean.

2.  Storage.  I don't store the urine.  Usually, only 1 or 2 or 3 bottles collect in a couple of days.  As soon as possible, it goes into the garden.  That way, odor doesn't develop and ammonia is not lost to the atmosphere.

3.  Dilution.  These are 2 quart bottles.  There are 4 quarts in a gallon.  Watering can for garden is 2 gallons.  I usually use 1/2 bottle, so 1 quart.  Pour half bottle into watering can.   Fill with water.  So the dilution is roughly  1:8.   Different authors give different dilutions.  This seems good enough and is fairly cautious.

4.  Esthetics.  I don't see any issues.  Maybe it's because I'm male, but I don't smell anything in the garden.  I think it's more, with the dilution and most goes into the garden  immediately, the solution soaks into the soil and doesn't leave anything to evaporate.

5.  Application.  During late winter, I applied around trees and shrubs that I thought could use an early boost.  I did not use winter application around trees I thought were risk for too early growth and risk for frost.  Trees that got urine solution - Ginkgo biloba, lindens, maples, young apples, Laburnum, young cherries, young paw paws, young persimmons, mulberry.  Shrubs that got urine solution - Viburnum, Lilac, hydrangea, buddleia, forsythia, rose of Sharon, weigela.

Plants that did not get urine solution during the winter:  plums, pears, figs.

For annuals and vegetables, in late winter and spring, I used small amounts, dilute, for Four O'clocks, peppers, garlic, onions, tomatoes, potatoes.

4.  Benefits.  The benefit varied by plant.  Again, I can't claim this is a research project.  Comparing this year with last year -

Last year the lindens, both American and European, had pale appearing growth, and not much of it.  The American linden had about 3 inches of growth.  This year, it's not done yet, but so far looks like 18 inches.  The leaves are larger and dark green.  I'm not sure if the European lindens have more stem extension, compared to last year.  I think so.  The European lindens have stopped making new growth.  The American linden continues to make new growth.

Last year, the Gingko biloba, I moved here from Vancouver, grown from seed 1 years ago, didn't make significant growth.  It leafed out, but stem extension was under an inch.  The leaves were yellowish pale green.  I think the soil here is low nitrogen.  This year the growth is vigorous.  The top has grown about 18 inches, and show no sign of stopping.   There is slight distortion of some of the leaves - splits and a little bit of curl.  I may have used too much urine solution.  I will not add more.  I want the growth to mature and harden before fall.

The Laburnum is a mixed bag.  The growth is more vigorous, compared to last year.  Some of the new growth has curly leaves.  I also noted that for a couple of other plants, so i think I used too much.  However, the Laburnum in general has much more vigorous growth, compared to last year.  It is more bushy and stout.

The persimmons and pawpaws grew much faster this year, and bigger leaves.  The bigger more tender leaves may have attracted deer, who liked eating those young leaves.  They decimated the cherries, which they didn't touch last year.  I'm in the process of making more tree cages.

Other plants that appear to have benefited, with very vigorous, strong looking growth - Viburnum, Buddleia, Rugosa rose. 

I used a small amount on bearded irises.  I wonder if that contributed to the epidemic of bacterial rot, by causing soft too-vigorous, too-early growth   I won't do that again.

So far, the tomatoes look amazing.  Last year they were slow growing, and several were pale to yellow.  This year, they are growing fast, with stout stems, dark green leaves.  Some are blooming and others look close.  I think they are earlier and show a lot of promise.

I'm not sure about the peppers.  They don't look vigorous, but are starting to produce.  I don't think they like the cool nights.

I did not use it for root crops like radishes and turnips.  I would expect the extra nitrogen to stimulate leaves but not good root crop.

The 4 O'clocks didn't all get urine solution.  Of those that did, some had curly leaves like the Laburnum.  I stopped, and used water without urine, then very dilute balanced Miracle Grow for tomatoes, and now the leaves are growing out normally.

Gingko biloba top growth.  6.7.14

Redmond Linden.  Second Season.  6.7.14

Redmond Linden Top Growth.  6.7.14

Laburnum with Curly Leaf Growth.  6.7.14

Interim Conclusions.

I don't see much negative from this method.  Almost none.  I need to avoid over doing it.  Some plants may be too sensitive to the high nitrogen, the salts, or some other aspect.  I won't use it again on irises, and will be cautious with Laburnum.

Odor - wise, it does not linger like fish emulsion.

I think it's best to use within a few days of collecting.  During the winter, I may store in a cold shed.

There is the 

Plans.
 Some trees make a burst of growth in Spring, then spend the summer maturing and photosynthesizing to make next Spring's burst of growth.  Giving more nitrogen now seems counter productive, so I won't.  I'm a little concerned that some plants grew too vigorously and have 't stopped, so could be soft going into winter.  But we still have a long season ahead.  So I am hopeful.  The Buddleia grew so fast and vigorous, I wondered if it would bloom.  They are now producing many flower heads, so I think that's not a problem.

I gave the figs a one-time boost, but that's all.  I don't want them going into next Winter too soft and weak to survive.

I don't want to over-do it.  I think the tomatoes got all they are going to get.  The garlic is going into ripening time, so no more nitrogen.  This year the garlic is the biggest they have ever been.  It will be interesting to see if they went all to leave and stem, or have nice big bulbs.  The potatoes got a boost today, but that's all.  Again, too much nitrogen isn't good.  Other big-nitrogen users, from what I read - squash and zucchini.  So they got some today.

Laburnum with Vigorous, Healthy Appearing Growth.  6.7.14

It's interesting how much urine we make in a day.  I probably won't want to use any for trees, shrubs, vegetables in late summer and fall.  That would risk burst of growth that doesn't get to harden off for winter.  Then, rather than wasting it, I might sprinkle the grass.  The grass will take up the nitrogen.  When I cut the grass, the clippings are used for mulch, which benefits the plants many ways and gives a slow release of nutrients.

This is a concept that provokes some negative reactions.  A lot of people are misinformed, or uninformed, regarding almost every aspect.  Health, environment, resource wastage, sanitation, toxins, esthetics.  I hope as more information collects, gardeners can learn how to use this fully renewable, non wasting, beneficial method to benefit their gardens in a safe and effective manner.

Fall Color - in Home Orchard and fruit garden.

Seijo Persimmon

 Some of the fruit trees and shrubs are showing great fall color.  They may be too young to know how they'll turn out.   The colors of these young trees and shrubs are beautiful.

I read elsewhere that persimmons have beautiful fall leaves.  The summer leaves are also handsome - shiny, green, tropical-looking.  Seijo has nice amber color.

I don't have the variety names for these blueberries.  They have various colors, from crimson to glowing amber.

Blueberries

Apricot seedling

Indian Blood Peach

The apricot seedling is a guess  It came with the place, unlabeled, and has not borne fruit.  It grew significantly this year - next year maybe I'll have a better idea.

Satsuma plum

Nikita's Gift Persimmin

Wild Plum Seedling

Indian Blood Peach - at this point is the only peach tree with colorful leaves.  The others are still green.

Satsuma plum had dark burgundy leaves, from late summer to now.  The mint is too big for this small tree - I should pull it out and opt for a smaller growing herb.

Nikita's Gift persimmon - even if there are no fruits, the fall color makes it worth having.  That is, if it grows into a nice tree.  Which may take a few years.

The wild plum seedling was one of the ones I started last year.  Of the others, one is dropping its leaves without much  of a show, and the other remains green.

Blueberry. Name unknown.

This does not include the Buffalo grape pictured earlier.  So far that variety is the only one in my yard with colorful fall leaves.

Kaki Persimmons

Mu Qi "Six Persimmons" (via commons.wikimedia.org)

Japanese Persimmon (commons.wikimedia.org)

Some background on persimmons.

from wikipedia:
Persimmons are Diospyros, meaning  divine fruit or "wheat of Zeus".    American persimmons are Diospyros virginana, while Asian persimmons are Diospyros kaki.

There are other species, including Diospyros lotus which is the rootstock for my two young persimmon starts.

American persimmon fruits are small, and American persimmon trees grow large.  Most are either male or female.  The variety "Meader" is a self fertile female.  Most others require a male pollinator.   When it comes to ripening, American persimmons are astringent to the point of being completely inedible, until fully ripe.  Then they lose astringency and have a rich, unique, tropical sweet flavor.

Ripe Kaki Persimmon (commons.wikimedia.org)

American Persimmon flower (commons.wikimedia.org)

 Asian, or Kaki persimmons are more complicated.  Apparently they also started out as small fruits that occurred only on female trees, requiring pollination.  But with culturing over the centuries, mutants occurred and were developed into several classes of persimmons - some are different when pollinated, and for some pollination has no effect.  Some are edible when crisp and under ripe - "nonastringent".  Others are very astringent until fully ripe, then are very sweet and delicious.

When the calix can be easily pulled out, that's a sign the persimmon is fully ripened. 

Some interesting folklore from the wikipedia article:   "painting of persimmons by Mu Qi (13th Century) exemplifies the progression from youth to age as a symbol of the progression from bitterness to sweetness... when young is bitter and inedible, but as it ages it becomes sweet and beneficial to humankind. Thus, as we age, we overcome rigidity and prejudice and attain compassion and sweetness."

Kaki persimmon (vintageprintable.com)

I planted 2 bare-root persimmon trees earlier this year.  One is "Seijo", which according to Raintree Nursery is one of the best flavored, and has the advantage of being the only Kaki to ripen at the Raintree nursery in Morton WA.  They may be a bit cooler than here, so maybe it will do well for me.

The second is hybrid between Diospyros virginana and Diospyros kaki, developed in Ukraine.  That "Nikita's gift", apparently, is 1/4 American persimmon and 3/4 Kaki.  I could not find ripening info.  In theory, the American genetics provides a richer flavor, more hardiness, and the Kaki genetics provides self-fertility, smaller size tree, and larger fruit.

Both are growing, slowly.  The first year the challenge is to get the roots established.  Toward that aim, they are mulched.  It's been rainy so I have not been watering them, but plan to if there is no rain for one week duration.  Both have a little growth.  The Seijo was larger at the start, and has more growth, compared to Nikita's Gift.  Neither tree looks very enthusiastic.  There is room for them so not uch lost if I never get to sample the fruit.  But I would like to get a taste, some day.

According to the Purdue horticulture site,  Persimmons were originally found in Manchuria, south to Kwangtung.  Marco Polo commented on Persimmons after visiting China in the 14th century.   In 1870, grafted Kaki persimmon trees were imported to the California and the US South, from China.   WA state is not listed on the Purdue site as a place where persimmons grow, but Oregon is.  Also some northern states, such as Michigan and New York.

Kaki persimmin (vintageprintable.com)

The Purdue site gives range of 3 to 4 years for some varieties to start fruiting, and others 5-6 years.   So it may be a while.

According to chestnuthilltreefarm.com, the original Seijo tree is more than 600 years old.  So it's a heritage variety.

Orchard. Progress Report.

Blackberries

Feijoa / Pineapple guava

 I may need to stretch how I define "orchard".   Since the feral Himalayan blackberries are adjacent, they are included.  At some point they need to be tamed but not yet. They will be a major source of fruit this year.  They are also part of the apiary as a major source of nectar and pollen.   Not many bees on this bramble hedge.  Behind the beehive, there is another bramble hedge where the honeeybees are more active.

Grape Himrod

Grape Buffalo

 Feijoa, also called Pineapple Guava.  Apparently neither name is accurate.  This was from Tsugawa nursery last week.  Nice sized shrub.  No variety name.  That might be a mistake.  Some varieties need a pollenizer, others don't.

Cherry Montmorency

Himrod and Buffalo Grapes survived the late frost and are now growing nicely.  Probably won't be up to the top of the posts this year, but roots should be established.    These were bare root from Fred Meyer or Home Depot. There is also one from Raintree Nursery, same size.

The challenge with grapes will be how to keep rabbits and deer from eating the plants.  Currently they are in cages.

Montmorency and Surefire Cherries.  Both ripening.  Small amounts but it is nice to get some  fruit from our own place, so soon.  The Montmorency was cheating a bit - I bought it this year in bloom at Lowes.  The Montmorency was moved last summer from the Vancouver place, so survived fine and overwintered fine.

Seijo and Nikita's Gift Persimmons.  According to the Raintree catalog, these may not come out of dormancy until late summer or fall, so I feel fortunate to have some growth now.  They look fairly delicate but might be tougher than they look.  Lemon balm is planted in many of the tree circles, including by the persimmons, to reduce risk of animals chewing roots and bark, and attract pollinators.  I may not keep it there if it looks too competitive for the little trees.

Cherry Surefire

Persimmon Seijo

Persimmon Nikita's Gift