Persimmon, Pawpaw, and Peach Trees Fall Color. 11.3.15

Nikita's Gift Hybrid Persimmon.  11.3.15

Today I stopped by the One Green World nursery outlet in Portland.  Fall is a good time to plant many types of trees.  I found two fruit varieties to try:

American persimmon "Prairie Star" (Diospyros virginiana) and  Korean bush cherry (Prunus japonica).   More on the bush cherry later.

Back at Battleground, the persimmons have nice fall color.  The best is Nikita's Gift - a hybrid between Diospyros virginiana and Asian persimmon,  Diosyyros kaki.  The little Prairie Star also has nice color.

Asian Persimmon "Saijo" had a tough summer, too much heat.  The leaves curled, but did not fall off.  They have nice color now, but it's hard to see due to the curled leaves.  Maybe next year it will do better.

The other American persimmon, Yates, doesn't look like much this year as far as leaf color goes.

Prairie Star American Persimmon.  11.3.15

Saijo Asian Persimmon.  11.3.15

Other fruit trees / plants with nice fall color were the NC1 Pawpaw and the genetic dwarf peach seedling.  The peach seeedling has fuzzy buds.  Those might indicate flower buds for next Spring.  It is about 3 years post germination.

It was interesting looking at the persimmons at One Green World.  They had several Nikita's Gift persimmons with big fruits on the 1 foot tall plants.  I asked the clerk how they accomplish that.  He didn't know.  They also had a kaki persimmon from Xian, which had little green fruits.   That did not seem promising to me, November and no where near ripe.

Mine may have received too much nitrogen this year.  It is a gamble.  Too little nitrogen, growth is puny.  Too much, and fruits don't set or fall off.   I will probably fertilize the two little American persimmons prior to Spring, but not the Asian and hybrid, which are both over 6 foot tall, so I don't need growth on those so much as wanting to taste the fruits.

NC1 Pawpaw.  11.3.15

Nikita's Gift Persimmons at One Green World Nursery.  11.3.15

American Persimmons are not yet developed as commercial fruits.  The challenges are, they tend to be small, too soft to ship, and have a bad reputation because anyone who has tried an unripe one never wants to try again.  When ripe, they are very soft, and lose their astringency.  They also have the challenge that, in their wild state, male and female trees are separate, and the females require pollination to form fruits.  Many varieties of Asian persimmons lost the need for a male to pollinate them (parthenocarpic), and those fruits are seedless.  Saijo does not need a pollinator, and apparently neither does Nikita's Gift.  Yates / Juhl is parthenocarpic.

James Claypool was an amateur who attempted to breed persimmons as an ideal fruit for home gardener or orchard.  He trialed thousands of hybrids, starting with varieties from earlier, mainly amateur, developments and improvements over wild persimmons.  When Claypool developed an illness and could no longer work on his persimmons, the Indiana Nut Growers Association took over.

Seedling Genetic Dwarf Peach.  11.3.15

Yates (Juhl) American Persimmon.  11.3.15

American Persimmon. Diospyros virginiana. 1.21.15

Image source:  Plant Illustrations.org 

Diospyros virginiana L.

Catesby, M., The natural history of Carolina, Florida, and the Bahama Islands, vol. 2: t. 76 (1754)

Diospyros virginiana L.

Catesby, M., The natural history of Carolina, Florida, and the Bahama Islands, vol. 2: t. 76 (1754)

From "Today in History" via the Library of Congress,

On the afternoon of December 16, 1864, Union troops led by General George H. Thomas devastated Confederate forces at Nashville, Tennessee. The battle had begun the day before when Thomas initiated an attack after waiting some two weeks for troop reinforcements and favorable weather.

In November, in an effort to cut off General William T. Sherman's supply line, Confederate General John B. Hood, led the Army of Tennessee out of Alabama and toward Nashville. One of Hood's men remembered the grueling march from Atlanta to Nashville. "After the fall of Atlanta," Confederate veteran Milton Cox told his son John:

we marched northward into Tennessee over frozen ground and how cold it was! Our shoes were worn out and our feet were torn and bleeding…the snow was on the ground and there was no food. Our rations were a few grains of parched corn. When we reached the vicinity of Nashville we were very hungry and we began to search for food. Over in a valley stood a tree which seemed to be loaded with fruit. It was a frost bitten persimmon tree, but as I look back over my whole life, never have I tasted any food which would compare with these persimmons.

19th Century Persimmon tree, Lima Lake, Illinois   Source Univ Chicago.

 Credit line for image:  American Environmental Photographs Collection, [AEP Image Number, e.g., AEP-MIN73], Department of Special Collections, University of Chicago Library.

The image is not dated.  Either late 19th century or eary 20th century.  

American Persimmon is a native American tree, range extending through the old South, northeast to Connecticut, northwest to southern parts if Illinois, and northern Missouri, southwest into NW Texas.

The photo at left is at Lima Lake, Illinois.  I recall my Dad talking about Lima Lake, which was then considered a "swamp", and now would be called a wetland.  The wetland covered an expanse of 10,000 to 12,000 acres near Quincy, IL, the town where my dad spent his life, and where I was born and grew up.   I remember being told that persimmons were bitter, astringent fruits, not suitable for eating.  So never tried one.  I missed out.  A truly ripe persimmon is almost like juicy candy.

Best growth of persimmon was known in the Mississippi river valley, which explains why my Dad was aware of them.

I am interested in some of the native American plants and trees, especially those that might have grown where I grew up.  That is even though I don't live there, and haven't for many years.

Those plants and trees seem somewhat taken for granted.  There are few native American fruit trees - pawpaw, some plums,  and a few others.  Persimmon is also one, known to native Americans, eaten by them, and described in early European colonial works.

Natural range of American Persimmon, Diospyros virginiana.  Source:  JSTOR.org

Source for map image:  JSTOR

Other names for persimmon included  "simmon, possumwood, and Florida persimmon,".  I only knew them as persimmons.

As for growth of American persimmon, they are difficult to transplant at a large size, due to taproot.  Because of that difficulty, some nurseries offer trees at small size, and grow them in specialized tall, narrow, open bottom tree containers.  That is how the persimmon tree came to me from Burnt Ridge Nursery.

From US Silvaculture manual, "Approximately 50 percent of the total radial growth is complete in 70 to 90 days, and 90 percent complete in 100 to 109 days after growth starts in the spring (6). Persimmon responds well to fertilizer."  Based on that info, it seems to me that small persimmon trees should be given nitrogen fertilizer early in Spring or late Winter.  In my yard, that means pee-cycling then.  My tree is just a small sapling.  Other references state not to fertilize, but I think that fertilizing sapling trees might give them a boost, then stop when they are bigger.  The issue with excess nitrogen is it can cause fruit drop.  Fruit drop is not a concern until the trees reach bearing size.

 Also according to the silvaculture manual, trees take a long time to bear, may start in 10 years.  However, seedling trees of most tree species need to go through a maturation process, that is already accomplished in the scion of grafted cultivars.  Because of grafting, the maturation process is skipped, so they may bear - guessing - in 3 to 5 years.  I think the main challenge is getting them large enough, fairly quickly.  The manual also states, "Common persimmon grows in a tremendous range of conditions from very dry, sterile, sandy woodlands to river bottoms to rocky hillsides and moist or very dry locations. It thrives on almost any type of soil but is most frequently found growing on soils of the orders Alfisols, Ultisols, Entisols, and Inceptisols".  I don't know what those soil types mean, but have copied them for future reference.

Image source plantgenera.org

Maritime Pacific NW climate is quite different from the provenance of American persimmons.  I think there are still a lot of unknowns.  However, others have grown them here, and they are available at local mail order nurseries such as Burnt Ridge, Raintree, and One Green World.  The difference in climate is not more than, say, the difference for kaki persimmons, or figs, or peaches, apples, pears, from their origins.

Also from the manual, best growth  "is in areas that receive an average of 1220 mm (48 in) of precipitation annually, about 460 mm (18 in) of which normally occurs during the growing season. Over the range of persimmon, the average maximum temperatures are 35° C (95° F) in the summer and -12° C (10° F) in the winter."    The climate here has a dry summer, most rain being in fall / winter / spring.  Both summer and winter are milder than midwest.   The climate here could be more suitable, or less, or no significant difference, compared to native provenance.

My goal is get the tree off to a good start.  Provide mulch, water well the first couple of summers, provide adequate nitrogen the first couple of years at the right time, and see if we can get a good burst of growth so I have a taste in my lifetime.

The variety that I purchased is reported as not requiring a male pollinator.  If, some time, I find some scion for male persimmon, I may graft them onto either this tree or Saijo, or Nikita's Gift, to produce viable seeds.  That is not a priority for me.

According to One Green World Nursery, "American Persimmon can be grown in all but the coldest regions of the U.S. American Persimmon fruit is ready to eat when it is soft like a tomato... American Persimmon trees are easy to keep at 10-12 ft. in height with pruning."

 The variety I planted is Yates, which is apparently also  called Juhl.  As I recall, this variety originates in Indiana, is larger than most others, and has a darker orange color. 

Planting Yates American Persimmon. 1.17.15

Yates Persimmon from Burnt Ridge Nursery.  1.17.15

Persimmon Roots in Tree Pot.  1.17.15

Yates Persimmon.  1.17.15

 Yesterday there was a box by the garage door.  This"Yates" persimmon sapling was in the box.

Things like this keep me going through the winter.  I've been looking forward to planting this tree.

It's a nice size, about 2 foot tall.  When I emailed Burnt Ridge Nursery to ask about them, they said their few remaining specimens were 1 to 2 foot.  Nice it's at the high end of that range.

In the bottomless, side-ridged narrow tree pot, the roots grew straight downward.  None were winding around.  I read that persimmons are difficult to transplant due to lack of a lot of fibrous roots.  This method of growing saplings is said to result in a much more transplantable specimen.  Even so, small specimens are more likely to result in success, so it's hard to find very big persimmon trees to plant.

Persimmons have black roots.  This was no exception.

Planted, and in wire cage.  More protection will be needed - I should prune some of the lower branches and fit a hardware cloth sleeve over the tree.  But it's raining and raining and raining, so I went inside.

Not good to plant trees in the rain.  I wanted to get it into the ground as quickly as possible, so compromised.  The fill soil was not too clumpy, and I think it is OK.

Yates is also call Juhl.  This variety is reported as, no male needed to produce fruit (parthenocarpic), much as many of the Asian persimmons are.  Also fairly large, and early. 

I think I'm nostalgic for some of the natural aspects of my growing up in Southern Illinois.  Pawpaws, American Linden, and now American Persimmon. 

One more photo added 1.18.15.  I pruned the side branches to a single whip.  Minimal loss of stored carbohydrates by doing that now, before sap flows up from roots.  The lower branches would need pruning to make a single leader.  I tied it upright.  I surrounded with hardware cloth for vole protection.  I surrounded with a larger cage for deer protection.  I think persimmons need neither, but prefer not to take a chance on an anomalous or taste-testing herbivore.  The newspaper mulch is crumpled so it won't lie flat and form a barrier.  It looks bad but there is no one but me to see it.  In Spring, it will be covered with a  nicer looking grass clipping mulch.  

Yates Persimmon, pruned, protected  1.18.15

Image from Vintageprintable.com

Persimmon Daydreaming. 12.18.14

American Persimmon.  Image source commons.wikimedia,org

American persimmon.  Image source commons.wikimedia.org

I've been thinking about adding an American persimmon tree.  I have a location in mind.

There are a few varieties described as not needing a male to pollinate them.  Yates, Prok, Meader.   Time to bear is listed as 3 to 5 years.

The varieties at Starks are 1 to 2 feet tall, in air pots.  Those are containers with open bottom, so the roots are "air pruned" resulting in bushier root mass and considered more likely to survive.  That size is small to my mind.  I have grown other trees from smaller, however.

Burnt Ridge also carries persimmon trees.  I sent them an email asking size, time to bear.

I only want to try one tree.  Yates or Prok are options.  Yates has more of a flavor description, Prok has more claim about how much they bear, and larger fruit.  Those are not side to side comparisons.

Starks gives ideal planting time as early march.  Will think about it some more.

We bought Asian persimmons at the grocery store the past couple of weeks.  Hichaya was much better than Fuyu.  Fuyu are more common.  They are better if allowed to ripen until soft.  They are like a tropical fruit flavor, a jelly in a fruit skin.